KingRevolver Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 ESPN Poll: http://i62.tinypic.com/245zk1k.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukee mike Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 watching a similar story now, cam newton. big and athletic, plenty of character issues, yet somehow is still starting after all these years. but cam is in the minority... giving a guy a bunch of money often isn't going to change his attitude for the better or encourage him to grow up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deal With It Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Winston will land in jail before the draft takes place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCD Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Cam stole shit and was a douche in college. Any one who watched Winston play last year should have had to struggle to pick their jaw off the floor. A bunch of fans making guesses as to who is going to do well in the NFL based on whether they "like" a guy kills brain cells. I'm the biggest MM fan on this forum but by the time the draft comes around (rightly or wrongly) Winston will probably be the consensus number one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarryRunSome Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 B U S T O Can't blame the team that drafts him. You have to, and hope for the best. He's a BAD guy. Out of the league within a couple years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukee mike Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Cam stole shit and was a douche in college. Any one who watched Winston play last year should have had to struggle to pick their jaw off the floor. A bunch of fans making guesses as to who is going to do well in the NFL based on whether they "like" a guy kills brain cells. I'm the biggest MM fan on this forum but by the time the draft comes around (rightly or wrongly) Winston will probably be the consensus number one. yeah, quarterbacks are tough to guess at, as a fan, gm, analyst, etc. could be one of the best qb's ever, could be another jamarcus russell so many can't miss guys that were total flops, and later rounders like brady that were terrific. given the choice i would take a higher character guy with a big arm that i thought was gonna be selfless and hard working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tripp Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 watching a similar story now' date=' cam newton. big and athletic, plenty of character issues, yet somehow is still starting after all these years. but cam is in the minority... giving a guy a bunch of money often isn't going to change his attitude for the better or encourage him to grow up[/quote'] Cam is much better than Winston IMO. I actually think Cam has progressed nicely as a QB and can be a real stud My biggest issue with Winston isnt with his character flaws. If i were a GM i could look past that for the right talent and hope he matures. For instance if i saw someone with Luck's talent out of college but had Winston's history of trouble I would not even hesitate to pick him #1 overall But with Winston i really dont come away overly impressed watching him. I dont see him make many NFL throws. Last year he compiled big time stats making easy plays with incredibly superior talen everywhere around him I would have the same question marks about Mariota honestly. The few times ive watched Mariota i didnt come away wowed with what he brings to the table. Very good player but didnt pop to me as a sure fire NFL stud the way Luck did. Combine and pro days should go a long way in evaluating these two, as well as the interview process Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine biologist Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Pretty good chance he'll get a starring role in the longest yard sequel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukee mike Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Cam is much better than Winston IMO. I actually think Cam has progressed nicely as a QB and can be a real stud My biggest issue with Winston isnt with his character flaws. If i were a GM i could look past that for the right talent and hope he matures. For instance if i saw someone with Luck's talent out of college but had Winston's history of trouble I would not even hesitate to pick him #1 overall But with Winston i really dont come away overly impressed watching him. I dont see him make many NFL throws. Last year he compiled big time stats making easy plays with incredibly superior talen everywhere around him I would have the same question marks about Mariota honestly. The few times ive watched Mariota i didnt come away wowed with what he brings to the table. Very good player but didnt pop to me as a sure fire NFL stud the way Luck did. Combine and pro days should go a long way in evaluating these two, as well as the interview process i think i lean more LCD's way... scouts and people watching combine/pro day/etc end up wrong about quarterbacks more often than they are right. look at who i consider the 2 best quarterbacks in the nfl over the last 10 years, rodgers and brady. both were thought of as likely busts. then rodgers gets to watch from the sidelines for a while and develop, and voila he becomes possibly the best qb of all time. if he was given the keys to the castle game 1 then who knows, he could've easily been the next ryan leaf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCD Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 A lot of it is luck. Who you end up with, who's your head coach, OC and QB coach. Like MM says Rodgers gets to play for a really good coach and team and watch another great QB from the sideline for a couple of years and it allows him to become possibly the best QB ever. Here's a good article. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/12/31/mariota-vs-winston-by-the-numbers/ If I was a GM I would take MM first but it's going to be the same old story of drop-back passer-this-is-the-NFL-MM-plays-in-a-gagdet-system crap. He's already fallen to the Jets in a lot of the recent mock drafts. The thing is while Winston is acting like an idiot, Mariota is feeding homeless people and doing a shit-ton of Axon training. Since Kelly has taken over Eagles personnel, he's going to trade up and probably take Mariota like 4th. Mariota then ends up with Kelly. That's all the luck he needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCD Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Ah I realized that someone reading this might not know about Axon. When both Mariota and Winston get drafted, Mariota will have tens of thousands of more "reps" under his belt than Winston. What it really means, is that in addition to making better life decisions than Winston, he's gotten a lot more practice at making football decisions. http://www.athleticbusiness.com/more-news/new-computer-program-hones-athlete-decision-making.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukee mike Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Cam stole shit and was a douche in college. Any one who watched Winston play last year should have had to struggle to pick their jaw off the floor. A bunch of fans making guesses as to who is going to do well in the NFL based on whether they "like" a guy kills brain cells. I'm the biggest MM fan on this forum but by the time the draft comes around (rightly or wrongly) Winston will probably be the consensus number one. LCD, i just reread this thread and laughed about the kills brain cells comment. my best friend growing up did a lot of drugs, and he used to say "yeah they kill brain cells but only the weak ones! i don't want those fuckers anyway!" strangely enough i think he lives right near florida state now, with winston around my dumbass buddy might only be the 2nd dumbest person in the area Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCD Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Winston isn't a dumbass. If he's not guilty of rape, then you just have a standard 21 year who acts like a moron shooting squirrels with a BB gun, stealing the most inconvenient thing to boost at a supermarket (probably on a dare) and shouting probably the nuttiest Internet meme at the wrong place. He makes bad choices. But the guy could be a QB genius. Anyone who watched his first game last year against Pitt could think nothing other than this is the greatest college football player ever. His QB rating was over 250. How many comeback drives did he make this year. This is not Manziel. This is a 6-4 dropback passer who can put the ball anywhere. He won't be allowed to sit for two years like Rodgers and grow up which is a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukee mike Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Winston isn't a dumbass. If he's not guilty of rape' date=' then you just have a standard 21 year who acts like a moron shooting squirrels with a BB gun, stealing the most inconvenient thing to boost at a supermarket (probably on a dare) and shouting probably the nuttiest Internet meme at the wrong place. [b']He makes bad choices[/b]. But the guy could be a QB genius. Anyone who watched his first game last year against Pitt could think nothing other than this is the greatest college football player ever. His QB rating was over 250. How many comeback drives did he make this year. This is not Manziel. This is a 6-4 dropback passer who can put the ball anywhere. He won't be allowed to sit for two years like Rodgers and grow up which is a shame. that is exactly what i meant about being a dumbass. my friend was one of the smartest people in school, but he acted like a dumbass (and still does). he called me at 4am a couple years ago to tell me about some car he bought lol. winston doesn't have a concept of how much his antics could cost him. just one moment of bad judgement like stealing some crab legs could cost him millions of dollars in endorsements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVU Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 I think QBs aren't often put in ideal situations for their particular skills and thus they fail. A QB regarded as a flop may have thrived in better circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Winston is terribly immobile, he looks slow in college, it will be 10 times worse in the pro's. Now you have to ask if he can succeed as a pure pocket passer, especially on a bad team, I cant imagine many people would say yes? Then you add in the fact that it's pretty clear he's stupid, makes poor decisions, and cant even talk after spending years in college...BUSTO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LCD Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 Mikeman, it's actually a huge advantage to be immobile. That helped make both Manning and Brady because it forced them right out of college to become "classic" QBs. Winston is probably not going to succeed at all on a bad team because he's immature and the team will be bad and he'll fold to the pressure. And then he'll be called a bust. The difference between Leaf and Manning might be that Leaf's dad was a dick and Manning luckboxed his way into having the best dad in the world for what he would end up becoming. Which leads to... I think QBs aren't often put in ideal situations for their particular skills and thus they fail. A QB regarded as a flop may have thrived in better circumstances. Archie was greater than Peyton in every way. Archie goes to the Saints and that was it. Archie learned all he needed to know about what makes you a failure at QB. Eli got two Super Bowl rings out of having a dad who realized how much luck is involved. If Archie wasn't his father he goes to the Chargers and is out of football in three years. John Elway's greatest general manager move was realizing he was a good enough baseball player to have the leverage not to have to play for the Colts. There's a reason first picks never make it to the Hall of Fame. He was the one who did because he got to manage himself away from failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easygoer Posted January 11, 2015 Report Share Posted January 11, 2015 The kid I can't wait to see in the NFL is Cardale Jones. This kid is going to be a stud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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