ERBtheGREAT Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Hey guys just trying to help me parents out here, wondering if anyone here ever had this problem before My grandfather passed away, my dad is executor of state for everything The inheritance is supposed to be split between my dad and his 3 siblings After my dad went through the safe he found papers signed binded by law saying his brother and his sister owed over 50k to my grandfather There is hundreds of thousands in the inheritance, should that money be subtracted from their “cut”, it’s been over 7 years so I’m not sure there is any bank records, would they have to prove they paid the money back or not? My grandmother was very strict with it being split 4 ways which is why we think she kept those papers in the safe still My dad is wondering should he get a lawyer and what kind of lawyer handles stuff like this? Thanks for your time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukee mike Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 i’ve dealt with this stuff a couple times... dad has to ask the siblings if they paid it back, if it’s clear they didn’t then it gets taken out of their share Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukee mike Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 if there’s an argument or question over whether it was paid back, then any decent estate attorney could handle it dumb to pay thousands in attorney fees if you don’t have to though sorry about your grandfather and please pass along a happy father’s day to your dad... probably a tough one without his dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERBtheGREAT Posted June 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Happy Father’s Day to you too Mike, thanks for condolences. I think the subject in hand is he knows they didn’t pay it back, so if he asks them and they say they did, he knows they are lying. I guess just when it gets to that point was my question, hire a estate attorney to make hem prove they paid it back I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERBtheGREAT Posted June 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I know bank records don’t go that far back, if they say they did there would be no record of them paying is my guess, was wondering either they need to show proof, or if there’s no proof then what would happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milwaukee mike Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Happy Father’s Day to you too Mike, thanks for condolences. I think the subject in hand is he knows they didn’t pay it back, so if he asks them and they say they did, he knows they are lying. I guess just when it gets to that point was my question, hire a estate attorney to make hem prove they paid it back I guess?ask them to prove they paid it back first and why the paperwork wasn’t adjusted. if i was paying a $50k loan back i would want the note ripped up or marked paid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Obviously if the siblings borrowed money and never paid it back, it'll cut into their share, especially since the grandfather kept a written record documenting that fact. The executor of the estate has a lot of power, and was no doubt selected for a reason, it's unlikely he'll need to blow money on lawyers(more than is normal). Unless if there is a lot of bad blood between the siblings, and everyone is still getting a nice chunk, things should go smoothly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Happy Father’s Day to you too Mike, thanks for condolences. I think the subject in hand is he knows they didn’t pay it back, so if he asks them and they say they did, he knows they are lying. I guess just when it gets to that point was my question, hire a estate attorney to make hem prove they paid it back I guess?They haven't "lied" yet, right, what makes you think they will? Most people wouldn't, perhaps one would but not both. he should just matter of factly mention it to each when discussing the estate(individually) and see what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ERBtheGREAT Posted June 17, 2018 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 True, I guess we will see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 By the way, my mother died a couple years back and I was the executor, I did hire a lawyer to handle the court stuff(all paperwork) , and it cost about 2K total, I figured since it was split 3 ways, it was cheap since otherwise I would have no idea what to do/file, etc. At least in my state it went really smooth, I think it was called informal probate, which meant i never even had to file court papers documenting every little estate payment, etc, or the conclusion of the process. The whole thing took less than 5 months because the house had to be sold, prob the biggest pain was filing the final and estate tax returns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 True, I guess we will see what happensKeep in mind while a bank might not keep records going back many years, most people who had a debt would, I know i do, old checkbook registers dont take up much space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffksu Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Sad but true, but a death in the family brings out the best and worst in folks... Sorry for your loss and hope things work out the way they should.. The way your Grandfather wanted them to... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadTiger Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 The burden is on THEM to prove that they repaid the outstanding debt, not on you (executor) to prove or disprove payment. Proceed as if they didn't repay it, and cut their proceeds accordingly. You can sure bet if they have any solid proof they repaid the debt, it will be presented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downsouth Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 bank records usually will go back that far. You may have to pay bank a fee to pull statements back that far but they will have them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWarning Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Sad but true, but a death in the family brings out the best and worst in folks... Sorry for your loss and hope things work out the way they should.. The way your Grandfather wanted them to...It sure does. I don’t talk to anyone on my fathers side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffksu Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 It sure does. I don’t talk to anyone on my fathers side. You are speaking the truth, my mother passed when she was 48 and while we were at the cemetery, her sister and parents, left the church and went directly to my Parents home and cleaned out about $160,000 dollars worth.... My Dad didn't realize this for a couple of days after all the family had left, had to take them to court to get back stuff that wasn't theirs to begin with... Never spoke to my grandparents or aunt again... Very sad actually!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAG Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 You are speaking the truth, my mother passed when she was 48 and while we were at the cemetery, her sister and parents, left the church and went directly to my Parents home and cleaned out about $160,000 dollars worth.... My Dad didn't realize this for a couple of days after all the family had left, had to take them to court to get back stuff that wasn't theirs to begin with... Never spoke to my grandparents or aunt again... Very sad actually!!!Wow. That sucks. There was one lamp and one picture with sentimental value taken by one of my brothers (before mom died) that has caused a little resentment over the years, but in the big picture that’s not too bad, and it certainly doesn’t hamper family relations...no money issues...I’ve heard some horror stories about families fighting and never speaking again... So glad there were no issues in my family. It depends on how the assets are held as to whether or not you need to go through probate officially. The executor can pay themselves for their time btw. Your dad will need to order many copies of the death certificate to send to Social security, and all investment accounts. If the assets are not in a trust, jointly held, or specifically designated in legal form for easy distribution, he may want to consult with a probate attorneycost would be paid out of the estate. You said the assets were to be divided equally, Hopefully that is is the form of an actual will. My sympathies on the loss of your grandfather. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Wow. That sucks. There was one lamp and one picture with sentimental value taken by one of my brothers (before mom died) that has caused a little resentment over the years, but in the big picture that’s not too bad, and it certainly doesn’t hamper family relations...no money issues...I’ve heard some horror stories about families fighting and never speaking again... So glad there were no issues in my family. It depends on how the assets are held as to whether or not you need to go through probate officially. The executor can pay themselves for their time btw. Your dad will need to order many copies of the death certificate to send to Social security, and all investment accounts. If the assets are not in a trust, jointly held, or specifically designated in legal form for easy distribution, he may want to consult with a probate attorneycost would be paid out of the estate. You said the assets were to be divided equally, Hopefully that is is the form of an actual will. My sympathies on the loss of your grandfather.In my moms situation, all her liquid assets were held with either TOD(transfer on death) designations or jointly with myself, it made things very simple and quick, the house was the only financial possession that really went through probate, we were lucky with her stuff because none of us really wanted much, us kids took whatever we wanted, then we invited the nieces and nephews to take whatever they wanted, then we either tossed everything else or gave it away. The funeral home did the notifying of SS too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyF0cker Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I'll never understand how people would want to fight over someone else's money like vultures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffksu Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I'll never understand how people would want to fight over someone else's money like vultures. I agree MF, never in my life, til I saw it within my own family... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAG Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 In my moms situation, all her liquid assets were held with either TOD(transfer on death) designations or jointly with myself, it made things very simple and quick, the house was the only financial possession that really went through probate, we were lucky with her stuff because none of us really wanted much, us kids took whatever we wanted, then we invited the nieces and nephews to take whatever they wanted, then we either tossed everything else or gave it away. The funeral home did the notifying of SS too.Yeah. I think the funeral home did notify Social Security here also. Social Security probably made that a rule so they are notified quickl and don’t send those checks. My parents had trust only because there were various provisions on how the money passed in the event that one or the other died first etc... Mine will be very simple like your moms. . Everything is set up with transfer upon death except for my townhouse in Denver, and Colorado does not allow for one to do that if I remember correctly. I was hoping not to have to pay to draw up a will...My bank and investment accounts can easily pass to designated beneficiary/ies...in SD you can just file a form to transfer real property on death. I suppose I could add someone in my family to the title in Denver. That might be the easiest way to do it unless anyine has any other ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAG Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 I agree MF, never in my life, til I saw it within my own family...That’s really too bad. Was the family close before that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 Yeah. I think the funeral home did notify Social Security here also. Social Security probably made that a rule so they are notified quickl and don’t send those checks.My parents had trust only because there were various provisions on how the money passed in the event that one or the other died first etc... Mine will be very simple like your moms. . Everything is set up with transfer upon death except for my townhouse in Denver, and Colorado does not allow for one to do that if I remember correctly. I was hoping not to have to pay to draw up a will...My bank and investment accounts can easily pass to designated beneficiary/ies...in SD you can just file a form to transfer real property on death. I suppose I could add someone in my family to the title in Denver. That might be the easiest way to do it unless anyine has any other ideas.By real property i assume you mean the house? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAG Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 By real property i assume you mean the house?Yes. Sorry...legal terminology... but just the building, no land. Land is owned by the Association. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted June 17, 2018 Report Share Posted June 17, 2018 One thing to remember in this situation is that the two brothers will not get 50K less than their split, they will each get approx 16.7K less, since 1/3 of the money they each owe is theirs anyway. So for example if the estate was 600k with no debt each sibling would get 200K - but because of the debt you consider the estate at 700K and divide by 3 = 233.3 k each, but they each got 50K already so they should get 183.3K while your dad gets the full 233.3K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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