Sharp Square Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Jimmy Hoffa said: I don't disagree that there needs to be a response. Russia attacking Ukrainian targets outside of the disputed territories areas is naked agression bordering on war crimes. I just don't want us to endure sacrifices for European security, again. I think it's okay for us to be a little selfish rather than altruistic this time. Russia takes Ukraine and nothing is done gives China green light to take Taiwan nothing is done Russia figures lets take a bigger fish strikes at Poland All hell breaks loose! Hitler was allowed to gain momentum in a similar way and this is why something has to be done. doing nothing at all is not an option. At this point we have to target them through Sanctions and not via Military ways that I think we both agree on. How strong we act against Russia now is compromised because there are def a group of Russian loving Republicans - who are loyal in hopes Putin will help them stay in office that makes extreme sanctions more difficult to achieve. But we had to do what we could BUT Biden has to follow through and use every thing in his power to try and limit the effects on our economy as well, We will have to wait and see how good of a job he does there, I think he needs to be very aggressive on that front as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Germany, Italy and hungary are out with sanctions, china is out, india is out and there will be a whole shitload of smaller countries that will be out. Biden needs to pull back because his tough talk is not so tough, he is not building a solid coalition, he has a not so solid coalition that will bail as soon as the fighting does, which may be in a few short weeks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 israel is not even on board with biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Sharp Square said: Russia takes Ukraine and nothing is done gives China green light to take Taiwan nothing is done Russia figures lets take a bigger fish strikes at Poland All hell breaks loose! Hitler was allowed to gain momentum in a similar way and this is why something has to be done. doing nothing at all is not an option. At this point we have to target them through Sanctions and not via Military ways that I think we both agree on. How strong we act against Russia now is compromised because there are def a group of Russian loving Republicans - who are loyal in hopes Putin will help them stay in office that makes extreme sanctions more difficult to achieve. But we had to do what we could BUT Biden has to follow through and use every thing in his power to try and limit the effects on our economy as well, We will have to wait and see how good of a job he does there, I think he needs to be very aggressive on that front as well. Good points all but I'm not ready to concede that Putin has designs on anything other than the disputed areas. If we did a 180 on drilling and over zealous green policies it would send a strong message to Russia and Europe. We should play that card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 This is deep into southern ukraine. They are not that far from linking up with guys coming from the east. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp Square Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 11 minutes ago, mikeman said: Putin is taking Ukraine becuase he's tired of being pushed around by Nato and the US - the simple fact is we are now a second rate power in rapid decline - he's made the calculation that we are now weak enough to get away with it and he's right. The other reality is that russia and ukraine have always been linked - economically, historically and militarally, Ukraine is in their sphere just like mexico and canada are to us. The best thing to do is shut up and back off, Ukraine will be his soon and there's nothing we can do about it, there's nothing we will do about it. Then we can go back to normal, wouldn't that be good? While we are always on different side of anything political I read your responses and I often find that at least you make an effort to make the reasonable and measured, and although I hate to admit it and it pains me to say lol I even find myself agreeing with u every now and again. I think you are right we could do nothing to stop Putin from taking Ukraine. And sure we cannot go off the cliff here esp in the oil economy with sanctions everyone knows that because we do have world wide economies to deal with, and Putin of course is fully aware of this and will use it in his favor here. But we could not stand by and do nothing so while we have to make sure we make moves here sanctions wise with the world economy in mind, we still need to make it hurt where we can. Even as just a deterrent to say okay you have Ukraine but it stops here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp Square Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 3 minutes ago, Jimmy Hoffa said: Good points all but I'm not ready to concede that Putin has designs on anything other than the disputed areas. If we did a 180 on drilling and over zealous green policies it would send a strong message to Russia and Europe. We should play that card. I agree there to an extent I think we can make a shift on those ideas to where it makes that message a bit stronger esp in short term Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 minutes ago, Sharp Square said: While we are always on different side of anything political I read your responses and I often find that at least you make an effort to make the reasonable and measured, and although I hate to admit it and it pains me to say lol I even find myself agreeing with u every now and again. I think you are right we could do nothing to stop Putin from taking Ukraine. And sure we cannot go off the cliff here esp in the oil economy with sanctions everyone knows that because we do have world wide economies to deal with, and Putin of course is fully aware of this and will use it in his favor here. But we could not stand by and do nothing so while we have to make sure we make moves here sanctions wise with the world economy in mind, we still need to make it hurt where we can. Even as just a deterrent to say okay you have Ukraine but it stops here. There's nowhere else for Putin to go, it stops with ukraine - he will not challenge nato and that means the baltics are "safe", as are the rest(poland romania, etc). The danger is a miscalculation which kills either russians or american/nato allies that would cause a retaliation, that's a real danger, the less tough talk the better. Notice the media is pushing for war, saying dumb stuff like "the US should impose a no fly zone over ukraine" - they understand nothing, russia owns the skies and has massive air superiority in ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 5 minutes ago, Sharp Square said: okay you have Ukraine but it stops here. I can live with that. 600,000 Americans died defending Europe last time, let's not do that again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharp Square Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, Jimmy Hoffa said: I can live with that. 600,000 Americans died defending Europe last time, let's not do that again. Well that is something we can 100% agree on, neither of us wants another American life lost in that defense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Holy shit, the market is turning positive. perhaps less fear of sanctions, more hope of a quick end to the war? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Just now, mikeman said: Holy shit, the market is turning positive. perhaps less fear of sanctions, more hope of a quick end to the war? My domestic stocks without international exposure have done well today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 6 minutes ago, Sharp Square said: Well that is something we can 100% agree on, neither of us wants another American life lost in that defense Spot on. Another area of agreement across the board is how we would all feel in the event of an attack on the US homeland. The bipartisanship and patriotism shown after 9/11 was affirming of our shared core beliefs and values. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 19 minutes ago, Sharp Square said: Ukranians claim to have destroyed the russians at that airport - that would be huge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyF0cker Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 I'd love to know the first time sanctions have ever done shit to punish, much less oust, a communist dictator. We'll be paying even more at the pumps, at the grocery store, and everywhere for fucking nothing. Not a god damn thing. Fuck Joe Biden and all of the Commiecrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 8 minutes ago, MonkeyF0cker said: I'd love to know the first time sanctions have ever done shit to punish, much less oust, a communist dictator. We'll be paying even more at the pumps, at the grocery store, and everywhere for fucking nothing. Not a god damn thing. Fuck Joe Biden and all of the Commiecrats. Iran has been laughing at our sanctions since 1979, North Korea has been laughing since 1953 and Cuba since 1962. Sanctions are laughable to dictatorships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigrunner Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 She was 100% right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigrunner Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstripe Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 "There's no doubt that weakness leads to war," Representative Brian Mast, a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said in a Thursday morning tweet. "Putin once said the collapse of the Soviet empire was the 'greatest geopolitical catastrophe' of the past century for Russia. For America, President Biden may be the greatest geopolitical catastrophe of this century." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterman Posted February 24, 2022 Report Share Posted February 24, 2022 http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/67843 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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