mikeman Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 23 minutes ago, Blondie said: He's not entirely wrong. If they are built in the wrong location then they very well could cost more to produce than what they would make, but logistically speaking any company in the business of building them should have enough knowledge to know where they would be the most profitable. This false information is a fairly common statement that simply leaves out important details from the original quote. The full statement was “The concept of net energy must also be applied to renewable sources of energy, such as windmills and photovoltaics. A two-megawatt windmill contains 260 tonnes of steel requiring 170 tonnes of coking coal and 300 tonnes of iron ore, all mined, transported, and produced by hydrocarbons. The question is: how long must a windmill generate energy before it creates more energy than it took to build it? At a good wind site, the energy payback day could be in three years or less; in a poor location, energy payback may be never. That is, a windmill could spin until it falls apart and never generate as much energy as was invested in building it.” Correct, hypothetically lets give them the benefit of the doubt and they put up a super duper windmill that exceeds the norm and it produces more energy over it's lifetime than required to build and maintain it . What's the result of that - the slightest of gains, the slightest of a true reduction of potential greenhouse gas emissions, etc. In short it's a total waste of time and resources. Also the "profit" angle is totally different from the energy angle, due to subsidies and tax credits they can be extremely profitable for the developer - but that's not helping society as a whole, it's a transfer of wealth which helps one small sector while making everyone else in the country slightly poorer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHHEAD Posted February 11 Author Report Share Posted February 11 14 minutes ago, mikeman said: Correct, hypothetically lets give them the benefit of the doubt and they put up a super duper windmill that exceeds the norm and it produces more energy over it's lifetime than required to build and maintain it . What's the result of that - the slightest of gains, the slightest of a true reduction of potential greenhouse gas emissions, etc. In short it's a total waste of time and resources. Also the "profit" angle is totally different from the energy angle, due to subsidies and tax credits they can be extremely profitable for the developer - but that's not helping society as a whole, it's a transfer of wealth which helps one small sector while making everyone else in the country slightly poorer. Depends....(also they must be taken down at some point) -------------------------- Plus other intangibles --------------------------- MM, there are pros and cons, and each location varies somewhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 1 minute ago, FISHHEAD said: Depends....(also they must be taken down at some point) -------------------------- Plus other intangibles --------------------------- MM, there are pros and cons, and each location varies somewhat. I know with solar the contracts often state the land must be returned to it's original state by the company at the end of the lifespan of the panels or the end of the contract. Is that the same for wind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHHEAD Posted February 11 Author Report Share Posted February 11 4 minutes ago, Blondie said: I know with solar the contracts often state the land must be returned to it's original state by the company at the end of the lifespan of the panels or the end of the contract. Is that the same for wind? Yea Not in the know with solar, turbines probably more of a task to do such? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 1 minute ago, FISHHEAD said: Yea Not in the know with solar, turbines probably more of a task to do such? I have some knowledge of solar, but was curious about wind and if you had made it to the point when talking to them about the restoration of land. I believe mostly solar is going in around here, but I did just have a company contact me about advertising for a wind energy community agent job posting on our site so I figure it's time to start learning more since I'm also involved with our local economic development organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstripe Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 Landfills will be filled with broken windmills and electric car bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHHEAD Posted February 11 Author Report Share Posted February 11 4 minutes ago, Blondie said: I have some knowledge of solar, but was curious about wind and if you had made it to the point when talking to them about the restoration of land. I believe mostly solar is going in around here, but I did just have a company contact me about advertising for a wind energy community agent job posting on our site so I figure it's time to start learning more since I'm also involved with our local economic development organization. EACH turbine company will be different. The company I dealt was INVENERGY........they state in contract to return property to original state at their expense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstripe Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 1 minute ago, FISHHEAD said: EACH turbine company will be different. The company I dealt was INVENERGY........they state in contract to return property to original state at their expense. What happens if the company goes out of business ? I’m sure many will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 4 minutes ago, redstripe said: Landfills will be filled with broken windmills and electric car bodies. GE went BIG and invested huge money in wind turbines. They've lost a fortune in doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHHEAD Posted February 11 Author Report Share Posted February 11 1 minute ago, redstripe said: What happens if the company goes out of business ? I’m sure many will. As stated earlier, the intangibles with this are immense..............you just named one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 10 minutes ago, redstripe said: What happens if the company goes out of business ? I’m sure many will. As I said earlier, I only know solar, but it's my understanding there are funds put away in case this happens. I don't know all the details as I mayyy have zoned out when listening to the speaker about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 37 minutes ago, FISHHEAD said: EACH turbine company will be different. The company I dealt was INVENERGY........they state in contract to return property to original state at their expense. I read a bit on the topic when researching how much these farmers are paid, it sounds like these windmills are designed to operate for 10-15 yrs without large maint, but they in fact often fail early, the blades start cracking, equipment wears out early, all of a sudden after 8 yrs they replace 1/2 the parts, which of course changes the whole equation that decided it was logical to build them. I'm not against windmills or solar, it's the subsidies I dont like, anyone wants to build one great - go ahead, we'll let you. The same thing goes for mass transit and lt rail lines/high speed rail that they're talking about. fantastic idea, go build one, if you can make a go of it I salute you - the problem is they need the govt to pay for 90% of it and it'll lose money every single year, forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstripe Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 45 minutes ago, FISHHEAD said: EACH turbine company will be different. The company I dealt was INVENERGY........they state in contract to return property to original state at their expense. What happens if the company goes out of business ? I’m sure many will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstripe Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 Everything Biden touches turns to shyt. This will be no different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWarning Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 Solar doesn’t work that great in the north either. My friend got sucked into getting them. Well, there isnt much sun in Michigan in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybagadonuts Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 17 hours ago, Brock Landers said: That's as dumb as anything else you've ever said Says the homeless middle aged tuna melt delivery driver libtard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WVU Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 I’m still waiting to hear the moral reasons for not getting into wind energy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 3 minutes ago, WVU said: I’m still waiting to hear the moral reasons for not getting into wind energy. The death of many migratory birds at the hands of windmills is morally repugnant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHHEAD Posted February 11 Author Report Share Posted February 11 8 minutes ago, WVU said: I’m still waiting to hear the moral reasons for not getting into wind energy. It's a 50-50 productive venture overall IMO (some say more so one way or the other on different levels).......................NOT taking into effect bad for wildlife, noise, ruins landscapes, ruins soil, etc.,etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHHEAD Posted February 11 Author Report Share Posted February 11 Petitions out not to construct these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 31 minutes ago, FISHHEAD said: Petitions out not to construct these. Drive from Palm Springs into L A.... There must be 200 of them and they're highly unsightly. A scar upon the landscape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Landers Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 48 minutes ago, Jimmy Hoffa said: The death of many migratory birds at the hands of windmills is morally repugnant. LOL Many more die hitting sky scrapers and even the ST LOUIS ARCH pal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Landers Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 9 minutes ago, Jimmy Hoffa said: Drive from Palm Springs into L A.... There must be 200 of them and they're highly unsightly. A scar upon the landscape. LOL Wtf, it's DESERT! The land has no particular value, this is a tremendous use of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blondie Posted February 11 Report Share Posted February 11 7 minutes ago, Jimmy Hoffa said: Drive from Palm Springs into L A.... There must be 200 of them and they're highly unsightly. A scar upon the landscape. There is a singular one in our area currently and a local electrician owns it. Now, solar farms… those are going to be popping up everywhere. In fact, the land owned by the local power plant will be filled with them soon right near the closed plant. pretty soon this will be solar panels as far as the eye can see… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Hoffa Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, Brock Landers said: LOL Wtf, it's DESERT! The land has no particular value, this is a tremendous use of it I prefer cactus in the desert to industrial by-products. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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