Coach Taylor Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 With respect, I wouldn't say that I know that. And, I have an undergrad degree in marketing and an MBA. What you say makes sense so long as the next questions aren't asked. Brand awareness and market penetration sound like "marketing" words, but they don't really exist in a vacuum. The questions not asked would be, for instance, how does a forum increase brand awareness, or does it? Another might be, what percentage of a market is accessed through a forum, or more properly a complete site, such as this is? Or most of the other sites. I've been on the forums for almost ten years. I can honestly say that I've only clicked on a shop banner twice. That was once back about ten years ago when I went to the Bodog site, and here last night on your Bookmaker link up above. I expect that is the experience of probably 95% of the posters in Forumville. How does owning a forum advance these objectives. It's true that a forum has your target market gathered in one place and is efficient in that sense, but why not just advertise, as I see your clients do up above. Why own? Market penetration? I think that ownership of a forum is for the desperate and the crooked if market penetration is the objective. In this industry, market penetration is a real challenge. The reason for that is what with all the hassles of signing up, sending in ID, and all the rest, the switching cost in terms of effort is substantial for the punter. I expect most serious betters sooner or later end up at the substantial and long established books and stay there. Market penetration requires a compelling USP right up front, and not behind a click or two or three. You never see that on a forum. The only selling propositions are bonuses and fast payouts. Who doesn't claim to have those, so eliminate the unique from USP. Huge bonus giveaways are always a sign of a crooked site, especially if you're a player in the casino section. You have to know that only crooked software is going to recoup those bonuses. Once again, if market penetration is the strategy, why not just advertise instead of own? I can suggest an answer to that. If you are crooked, there is an advantage in owning a site where you may have bilked posters there. Ownership means controlling mods and being able to censor the bad word, i.e. the truth, getting out. You can run the scam longer, and certainly we have seen that at almost every site. Which brings me to the point of all this. It is almost certain that if a online shop owns a forum, it's crooked and the real purpose of that ownership is predatory. I'm talking of ownership, not advertising, although the same dynamic comes into play if the forum/site will ban and censor posters who criticize advertisers. The problem with ownership is that its commercial logic is based on poster count and levels of poster activity. As we all know, that is like trying to hang your hat on a coathook made of smoke. You and KR were able to almost completely destroy EOG by leaving with an entourage. It's in the final weeks or months of destroying itself for good over keeping the forum equivalent of pedophiles in its midst. So my question really isn't so much about this forum, which I think is on the right track, but about why any legitimate betting shop would own EOG other than to act in a predatory fashion towards the posters. Your response is certainly valid if I had asked why an online site would advertise, but I asked about why it would own a forum. ThanksK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boatboatboat Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 I didn't know by "want" you meant "own" Why would they own? Not owning a book I can only surmise .I am sure you are certainly more qualified to do that than I. but I'll toss out a few potential reasons off the top of my head. #1 Much of the infa structure with static cost that a book has are the type of structure equipment/staff wise that a book already has in place. So by owning a forum it gives them an edge from a cost perspective than a forum that has no ties to a book . Our family owns multiple businesses. They all share employees equipment and property to an extent. It has given us a competitive advantage in many regards. I believe a book owning a forum would be much the same. #2 By owning a forum it allows them to be more market specific in SEO targeting by utilizing the forum they own to its full potential #3 Books are often owned by entrepreneurs. Being that as it were the nature of the beast is to always be looking for a new challenge. Just as you will at times see restaurateurs getting involved in other aspects of the industry, such as distribution of food products. #4 Rather than pay some one else XXX for a banner, start a forum and charge others. I am sure there are many other reasons. I think when the danger may creep in from a players/posters perspective is when a book owns a forum and the only book they promote is theirs. Now that may be by design, or it may be simply because no other books choose to advertise there. When that happens it does open up potentially a more pungent can of worms. But as long as posters/players are allowed to speak openly and freely (within reason of course) about books, wagering, ect I'm not real sure who owns a forum is a factor. It's when a forum continually tries to stifle negative (but honest) comments about a book, or wont allow posters who have +EV tips to pass along to the community, that I think posters have what I perceive as a justifiable concern that in some fashion something is being done to bring harm to the community. The most difficult job in all of forum Ville IMO is the Mod who clicks on the page and sees the 14th thread by the same poster that is titled "XXXX is a scam shop, they blah blah blah blah" When chances are that the poster is either misrepresenting the facts, made the error them self, or simply has a vendetta against a book. What that mod does at that time will upset someone regardless of what they do. If the delete/move/edit the thread posters scream "freedom of speech, you censored" If the mod doesn't do anything they are allowing a poster to slowly bring the forum down as those threads drive away posters as well as banners. It really is a difficult call. I do know at TGF all of the staff has been unified in allowing for as much free speech as is reasonably possible. Much more than about any forum I am aware of. To date it has served us well, and IMO will continue to do so......... Wow I rambled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Taylor Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 I didn't know by "want" you meant "own" Why would they own? Not owning a book I can only surmise .I am sure you are certainly more qualified to do that than I. but I'll toss out a few potential reasons off the top of my head. #1 Much of the infa structure with static cost that a book has are the type of structure equipment/staff wise that a book already has in place. So by owning a forum it gives them an edge from a cost perspective that a forum that has no ties to a book . Our family owns multiple businesses. They all share employees equipment and property to an extent. It has given us a competitive advantage in many regards. I believe a book owning a forum would be much the same. #2 By owning a forum it allows them to be more market specific in SEO targeting by utilizing the forum they own to its full potential #3 Books are often owned by entrepreneurs. Being that as it were the nature of the beast is to always be looking for a new challenge. Just as you will at times see restaurateurs getting involved in other aspects of the industry, such as distribution of food products. #4 Rather than pay some one else XXX for a banner, start a forum and charge others. I am sure there are many other reasons. I think when the danger may creep in from a players/posters perspective is when a book owns a forum and the only book they promote is theirs. Now that may be by design, or it may be simply because no other books choose to advertise there. When that happens it does open up potentially a more pungent can of worms. But as long as posters/players are allowed to speak openly and freely (within reason of course) about books, wagering, ect I'm not real sure who owns a forum is a factor. It's when a forum continually tries to stifle negative (but honest) comments about a book, or wont allow posters who have +EV tips to pass along to the community, that I think posters have what I perceive as a justifiable concern that in some fashion something is being done to bring harm to the community. The most difficult job in all of forum Ville IMO is the Mod who clicks on the page and sees the 14th thread by the same poster that is titled "XXXX is a scam shop, they blah blah blah blah" When chances are that the poster is either misrepresenting the facts, made the error them self, or simply has a vendetta against a book. What that mod does at that time will upset someone regardless of what they do. If the delete/move/edit the thread posters scream "freedom of speech, you censored" If the mod doesn't do anything they are allowing a poster to slowly bring the forum down as those threads drive away posters as well as banners. It really is a difficult call. I do know at TGF all of the staff has been unified in allowing for as much free speech as is reasonably possible. Much more than about any forum I am aware of. To date it has served us well, and IMO will continue to do so......... Wow I rambled.K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRevolver Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Deemer you seem to have taken on a new role. Someone who accelerates the fights instead of being in them. Nice work He can be your protégé. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maron Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 cliff notes please Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boatboatboat Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 question was asked who does what I replied with what I did. (didn't want to speak for others) Only commenting on what I did was perceived as being self centered While making post about what I did, a post was added to thread (this site is fast) making comment about Kelly. I thought is was about me (honest error) people said I assumed everything was about me I said I was paid by books, people perceived that was a "gottcha" moment. I then said anyone who is on a forums payroll in any capacity is working for the books as that is the source of revue to make payroll. Be it at the RX in 1998 or TGF in 2015. Question was asked why would a book want a forum I didn't respond as didn't know question was to me, and it had upset others earlier in thread when I responded when comment wasn't about me I was than DIRECTLY asked why a book would want a forum I responded like the question was why would a book advertise (want) on a forum I was then told they meant OWN a forum I answered that........... Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh crap I made it all about me again. Son of a gun (bangs head) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cop Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 I'm stepping down as a Tgf employee effective immediately. Try to do what's best for the forum but sometimes it just to hard to make everyone happy. Enjoy guys.. Good move. Never understood why you got involved with these dirtbags anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRevolver Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Good move. Never understood why you got involved with these dirtbags anyway. Kid can't handle the pressure. We thought sending him to CR to bang a few hookers (ended up being the same one for three days) would relax him and he'd come back refreshed. Time to look for a new head mod. I'll see if I can get Jose Santiago to send me his résumé. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Diabler Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Good move. Never understood why you got involved with these dirtbags anyway. Would applaud Mike if he were serious. But unless something went down behind the scenes, I'm not sure what transpired on the forums to provoke this. Unless I missed something, which is entirely possible. So I would imagine he's not being serious. Dating back to the SBG days, Miker has stepped down more often than Diabler has retired from posting. Happens every few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boatboatboat Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Yanks needs to read his contract closer. It has a clause in it regarding his length of service. I doubt upon seeking legal council he will be leaving Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Man Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 I'm stepping down as a Tgf employee effective immediately. Try to do what's best for the forum but sometimes it just to hard to make everyone happy. Enjoy guys.. I can't think of a less thankless, less rewarding occupation than chitty room mod. More suited for some full of himself, self centered, a-hole type. I am certain one of those is in waiting. Go and enjoy life Yanks. Between SBG and here you need a break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yanks Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 At the very least I'm taking a break. I won't air dirty laundry on the forums. But I always did what I thought was best for TGF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingRevolver Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 You guys kidding me? A break? LOL Guy was just in Costa Rica banging hookers. How many breaks does this guy need? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybagadonuts Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 At the very least I'm taking a break. I won't air dirty laundry on the forums. But I always did what I thought was best for TGF.Can you take cop and bosshog with you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boatboatboat Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 yanks needs to review contract. "breaks" are certainly a possibility he hasn't been working for the peace corps here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cop Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Can you take cop and bosshog with you? Don't worry I'm leaving . Too much censorship for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yanks Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 I'm the Rodney Dangerdield of chatty chat mods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Man Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 At the very least I'm taking a break. I won't air dirty laundry on the forums. But I always did what I thought was best for TGF. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzTeLePbB08 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Diabler Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Can you take cop and bosshog with you? LOL. But seriously, how boring would life be in general if everyone was just like you and thought the same way you did? You would be bored as fuck on these forums if you didn't have other people around with differing opinions. We all like to bust balls and you certainly are no different. Makes for a more entertaining forum experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Diabler Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 Don't worry I'm leaving . This place is liberal to the level of looniness now. Just imagine how insufferable its going to be when we are gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol Diabler Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 I'd tell Mikeyanks he is a good dude, a good mod, and he should stick around for the good of the forum. But only the 1st 2/3 of that would be genuine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest boatboatboat Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 . Too much censorship for me.really? Not sure there is a more lenient forum out there. What has been censored? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Paddy Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 I didn't know by "want" you meant "own" Why would they own? Not owning a book I can only surmise .I am sure you are certainly more qualified to do that than I. but I'll toss out a few potential reasons off the top of my head. #1 Much of the infa structure with static cost that a book has are the type of structure equipment/staff wise that a book already has in place. So by owning a forum it gives them an edge from a cost perspective than a forum that has no ties to a book . Our family owns multiple businesses. They all share employees equipment and property to an extent. It has given us a competitive advantage in many regards. I believe a book owning a forum would be much the same. #2 By owning a forum it allows them to be more market specific in SEO targeting by utilizing the forum they own to its full potential #3 Books are often owned by entrepreneurs. Being that as it were the nature of the beast is to always be looking for a new challenge. Just as you will at times see restaurateurs getting involved in other aspects of the industry, such as distribution of food products. #4 Rather than pay some one else XXX for a banner, start a forum and charge others. I am sure there are many other reasons. I think when the danger may creep in from a players/posters perspective is when a book owns a forum and the only book they promote is theirs. Now that may be by design, or it may be simply because no other books choose to advertise there. When that happens it does open up potentially a more pungent can of worms. But as long as posters/players are allowed to speak openly and freely (within reason of course) about books, wagering, ect I'm not real sure who owns a forum is a factor. It's when a forum continually tries to stifle negative (but honest) comments about a book, or wont allow posters who have +EV tips to pass along to the community, that I think posters have what I perceive as a justifiable concern that in some fashion something is being done to bring harm to the community. The most difficult job in all of forum Ville IMO is the Mod who clicks on the page and sees the 14th thread by the same poster that is titled "XXXX is a scam shop, they blah blah blah blah" When chances are that the poster is either misrepresenting the facts, made the error them self, or simply has a vendetta against a book. What that mod does at that time will upset someone regardless of what they do. If the delete/move/edit the thread posters scream "freedom of speech, you censored" If the mod doesn't do anything they are allowing a poster to slowly bring the forum down as those threads drive away posters as well as banners. It really is a difficult call. I do know at TGF all of the staff has been unified in allowing for as much free speech as is reasonably possible. Much more than about any forum I am aware of. To date it has served us well, and IMO will continue to do so......... Wow I rambled.Not at all. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yanks Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 [quote name="boatboatboat" post="167315" timestamp="1436118288 What has been censored? FromWhat I can tell it was the word Ni**er in a thread title. I would have taken it out too. I hate that word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeybagadonuts Posted July 5, 2015 Report Share Posted July 5, 2015 really? Not sure there is a more lenient forum out there. What has been censored?Cop is a bit slow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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