IQ difference between posters who thought Trump/Hillary won...

[MonkeyF0cker]

Not sure what operations has to do with Trump's comment. We're talking about mutual defense treaties that Trump thinks are a waste of money for America and we should charge more for them because we provide much more defense based on our power than we would ever receive.

 

Also, if you want to stop mutual defense treaties, or break them, but you want to increase military spending in general... where is all that money going?

 

"Mutual defense" is such a politically correct terminology.  They are bases on foreign soil setup to defend their country and our economic interests.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  They were intended to be mutually beneficial, but they only serve as a burden to American taxpayers.

[Timely Hitting]

Saudi Arabia a great example. They are a cesspool of a country run by the lowest of the low. Their human rights violations are disgusting, and their support of terrorism is equally. I don't agree with any relations with that nation and think it's comical that we defend them, supply them with aid and the likes. But saying we'll just stop without any plan or knowledge of why we are in bed with them to begin with is just ignorant.

 

I don't like how we pick and chose which genocide to stop, or which nation to overthrow, and frankly I rarely think any of it is our business. There will always be bad people in the world, and all we do by attacking them every time is create more bad people. It's a waste of time and a vicious cycle. The problem is, Trump wants to attack the hot topic bad guy; it's not as if he's proposing an end to our interference in the Middle East or the rest of the world. He just wants to stop North Korea and ISIS now, instead of Ghadafi and Suddam. It's not as if he's saying let's stop policing the world; instead he's saying lets put all our efforts towards the hot topic, and ignore others; It's no different.

[MonkeyF0cker]

And you're scared to lose them as an "ally"?

[Mofome]

Yeah I just re-read it, I misinterpreted.

 

 

 

I will say that if Trump didn't get crushed it's a victory of sorts for him. Hillary has been in this theater her entire adult life, her experience in this type venue "trumps" his in every way. She should be a way better political debater than him.

 

If he's able to even compete with her it either means she isn't very good at this political thing and he is, or it means any schmoe can be a politician and it doesn't take much skill at all.

A narrative of convenience.

 

How about everyone he eviscerated, in your party, on his way to the nomination? Does it mean none of them are any good at this "political thing"?

[Mofome]

Man, what does it to be part of the TGF family!

 

 

Tough day for ODB

[Timely Hitting]

That's a bit absurd.  What are we getting in return for spending billions of dollars on those bases?  Makes absolutely no sense to continue a one-sided relationship.  If they are demanding that we foot the ENTIRE bill to defend THEIR country and that breaks relations with those countries, they were never our allies to begin with.

Please point me to anywhere that says we get nothing in return. I would like to read it. As I said, certainly not an expert on it. I do know we certainly do get things in return for our assistance with Japan:

 

In July 2014, Japan took a step toward a more active role in regional security when Abe announced that his cabinet had approved a reinterpretation of the antiwar Constitution that would allow Japanese forces to aid friendly nations under attack. The decision marks a significant shift from a position that had strictly limited Japan to act solely in its own defense. "Japan, for half a century, has expanded its military capability in ways that raise questions about the interpretation of Article Nine in its constitution," says Smith. "And the question has become, 'How much can Japan do in the alliance?'"

Some experts have defined the modern-day alliance to be more inclusive, advocating initiatives such as trade and energy cooperation as the road to a future framework. "This is bigger than just the military. These are instruments we use to improve our own national prosperity and security, and that's fundamentally what this alliance should be about," Smith says.

The multilateral Trans-Pacific Partnership has been a highly promising economic development that observers hope will tighten the alliance. After the Fukushima nuclear disaster forced Japan to reconsider its energy policies, Washington agreed to a long-term liquefied natural gas export deal with Japan that could see the United States become a supplier for the island country.

 

Don't agree with the TPP, but don't want to edit it and take it out as I accidentally copy and pasted that paragraph as well.

[Bfo]

Correct I think Hilary "won" the debate only bc Trump didn't bother to address most of the issues and also seemed clueless on many others.

Also correct there is ZERO (0) chance I'd vote for either of these clowns

I can't believe it's come to this. Have no illusions about politicians, but im scared to see what kind of candidates we will be nominating 50 years from now.

 

Had Romney been the Republican nominee this election cycle I probably would've donated my time to help his campaign, and he didn't even really want to be President. This group is horrible and I don't see much better on the horizon

[MonkeyF0cker]

Saudi Arabia a great example. They are a cesspool of a country run by the lowest of the low. Their human rights violations are disgusting, and their support of terrorism is equally. I don't agree with any relations with that nation and think it's comical that we defend them, supply them with aid and the likes. But saying we'll just stop without any plan or knowledge of why we are in bed with them to begin with is just ignorant.

 

I don't like how we pick and chose which genocide to stop, or which nation to overthrow, and frankly I rarely think any of it is our business. There will always be bad people in the world, and all we do by attacking them every time is create more bad people. It's a waste of time and a vicious cycle. The problem is, Trump wants to attack the hot topic bad guy; it's not as if he's proposing an end to our interference in the Middle East or the rest of the world. He just wants to stop North Korea and ISIS now, instead of Ghadafi and Suddam. It's not as if he's saying let's stop policing the world; instead he's saying lets put all our efforts towards the hot topic, and ignore others; It's no different.

 

It's better than what Hillary is proposing - which is more of the same.

[Mofome]

117 IQ checking in!

Get at em Spank! You're for her. Deep down. The lady hate is curable. We need Spank.

[spankie]

Could be, won't know until we see all of the debates. 

 

These are KEY. 

[Timely Hitting]

The coordination between U.S. and Japanese military forces after the devastating March 2011 earthquake and consequent tsunami that struck Tohoku demonstrated the resilience of the alliance. The SDF conducted rescue operations in tandem with thousands of U.S. forces under Operation Tomodachi, the largest bilateral mission in the history of the alliance. U.S. forces aided the SDF in clearing Sendai's airport, assisted in search-and-rescue teams, and prepared Japan's defense readiness.

This high level of support echoed Japan's own cooperation during the Gulf and Iraq wars. In November 2001, the government of Junichiro Koizumi dispatched the Maritime Self-Defense Force to the Indian Ocean to support U.S. military operations in Afghanistan, marking Japan's first overseas military action during a combat operation. A year later, Japan drafted a bill that would allow the SDF to be dispatched to postwar Iraq, and in 2003 it sent forces to aid in postwar reconstruction efforts.

[Bfo]

A narrative of convenience.

How about everyone he eviscerated, in your party, on his way to the nomination? Does it mean none of them are any good at this "political thing"?

Yes, not one Republican candidate I felt comfortable with. Zero.

 

I wish I was 25 years younger and would still be around to see 3rd party candidates that actually had a shot at competing.

 

I liked a lot of what Ron Paul stood for, his son not so much.

[Mofome]

We should have taken the oil.

[MonkeyF0cker]

Please point me to anywhere that says we get nothing in return. I would like to read it. As I said, certainly not an expert on it. I do know we certainly do get things in return for our assistance with Japan:

 

In July 2014, Japan took a step toward a more active role in regional security when Abe announced that his cabinet had approved a reinterpretation of the antiwar Constitution that would allow Japanese forces to aid friendly nations under attack. The decision marks a significant shift from a position that had strictly limited Japan to act solely in its own defense. "Japan, for half a century, has expanded its military capability in ways that raise questions about the interpretation of Article Nine in its constitution," says Smith. "And the question has become, 'How much can Japan do in the alliance?'"

Some experts have defined the modern-day alliance to be more inclusive, advocating initiatives such as trade and energy cooperation as the road to a future framework. "This is bigger than just the military. These are instruments we use to improve our own national prosperity and security, and that's fundamentally what this alliance should be about," Smith says.

The multilateral Trans-Pacific Partnership has been a highly promising economic development that observers hope will tighten the alliance. After the Fukushima nuclear disaster forced Japan to reconsider its energy policies, Washington agreed to a long-term liquefied natural gas export deal with Japan that could see the United States become a supplier for the island country.

 

You're quoting a pro-TPP piece.  Now, you're back to talking about trade treaties.  Jeez.  Military treaties are not the same as trade treaties.  Any treaty can be renegotiated.  Besides, you're quoting a piece that is glowing over another trade treaty (like NAFTA) that enables domestic business to exploit more third world labor and move jobs OUT of the country.

 

The question is:  How does the U.S. benefit from military bases in Japan other than strategic placement?

[MonkeyF0cker]

The coordination between U.S. and Japanese military forces after the devastating March 2011 earthquake and consequent tsunami that struck Tohoku demonstrated the resilience of the alliance. The SDF conducted rescue operations in tandem with thousands of U.S. forces under Operation Tomodachi, the largest bilateral mission in the history of the alliance. U.S. forces aided the SDF in clearing Sendai's airport, assisted in search-and-rescue teams, and prepared Japan's defense readiness.

This high level of support echoed Japan's own cooperation during the Gulf and Iraq wars. In November 2001, the government of Junichiro Koizumi dispatched the Maritime Self-Defense Force to the Indian Ocean to support U.S. military operations in Afghanistan, marking Japan's first overseas military action during a combat operation. A year later, Japan drafted a bill that would allow the SDF to be dispatched to postwar Iraq, and in 2003 it sent forces to aid in postwar reconstruction efforts.

 

Thanks for proving my point.  We foot the bill to help them.  What are we getting in return?

[Mofome]

Yes, not one Republican candidate I felt comfortable with. Zero.

 

I wish I was 25 years younger and would still be around to see 3rd party candidates that actually had a shot at competing.

 

I liked a lot of what Ron Paul stood for, his son not so much.

Randal Paul explained to students at Howard that there were white people in the NAACP. That was tough to watch.

[Mofome]

MF and Timely

 

Good discussion.

[po69]

joey and timetopay have never been considered to have high intelligence

[Timely Hitting]

It's better than what Hillary is proposing - which is more of the same.

 

The simplification of Foreign Policy tonight by Donald Trump, was embarrassing.

 

You seem to be turning this into opinions on Hillary Clinton's ideas and policies which I have never expressed support of.

 

What I do know is that however one feels about her policies, they are those of someone who has relationships with World Leaders and they are actually a plan. Trump has no Foreign Policy understanding nor does he have a Foreign Policy plan.

 

It's cool to say we can just take take take, demand demand demand, but that's just not how it works.

[MonkeyF0cker]

The simplification of Foreign Policy tonight by Donald Trump, was embarrassing.

 

You seem to be turning this into opinions on Hillary Clinton's ideas and policies which I have never expressed support of.

 

What I do know is that however one feels about her policies, they are those of someone who has relationships with World Leaders and they are actually a plan. Trump has no Foreign Policy understanding nor does he have a Foreign Policy plan.

 

It's cool to say we can just take take take, demand demand demand, but that's just not how it works.

 

Well, this is a thread about who won the debate.  If Trump wanting to renegotiate treaties is a worse idea than the status quo, I don't think you understand that the way we're currently doing things isn't working very well.

 

Most Presidents have no working relationships with world leaders before they enter office.  Obama certainly didn't.  Neither did Bill Clinton.

 

When we spend more than 5x the amount on the military over education, something has to change.  And Hillary isn't going to be the one to change it.

[Timely Hitting]

Thanks for proving my point.  We foot the bill to help them.  What are we getting in return?

 

So their assistance in Iraq and Afghanistan was free

[Bfo]

We should have taken the oil.

Actually agree, the whole "we invaded for Bush's oil buddies" became a mundane liberal talking point. Other than installing a puppet dictator and taking total control of the government how do you "take the oil"?

[MonkeyF0cker]

So their assistance in Iraq and Afghanistan was free

 

LOL.  They sent 600 troops.  600!!!!!!!

 

We had 8x more troops killed than they sent.

[Bfo]

Randal Paul explained to students at Howard that there were white people in the NAACP. That was tough to watch.

He's an idiot, his father was the best off the cuff speaker I've ever heard in the political realm. No one else even close.

 

Not like Mr Obama (and insert whichever Republican you like) that read their stuff from a telepromter and stutter like buffoons when they have to speak unscripted.

[Mofome]

He's an idiot, his father was the best off the cuff speaker I've ever heard in the political realm. No one else even close.

 

Not like Mr Obama (and insert whichever Republican you like) that read their stuff from a telepromter and stutter like buffoons when they have to speak unscripted.

Clinton was awfully impressive. Imo