Dr. Paddy Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 I don't post at Peeps, but I do read there and check my PMs. I see Pat Bateman has a thread going where he, an IT recruiter, wonders if some traffic arrest will stop him from getting a job he's applying for.What the fuck is this with America and criminal records? Why are criminal records public? I understand that media will publish some convictions, maybe .05 of 1%, but what business does a government have in releasing a criminal record from databases once the offender has completed his or her sentence? We don't do that in Canada, unless there is a bona fide occupational requirement to ensure that the potential hire hasn't been convicted of any crime that could be repeated in the context of employment, i.e. involvement with children with an unpardoned sexual offense, involvement as a doctor or nurse with a drug record. That sort of thing, which is reasonable enough. Discrimination on the basis of a criminal record offends our Charter of Rights and the human rights codes of some of our provinces. An employer can be sued for denying employment based on an irrelevant criminal record. For example, this is what the BC code says... Discrimination in employment13 (1)A person must not(a)refuse to employ or refuse to continue to employ a person, or(b)discriminate against a person regarding employment or any term or condition of employmentbecause of the race, colour, ancestry, place of origin, political belief, religion, marital status, family status, physical or mental disability, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity or expression, or age of that person or because that person has been convicted of a criminal or summary conviction offence that is unrelated to the employment or to the intended employment of that person. My starting position, before I ask my question, is that likely a minimum of 80% of the posters here have committed some form of criminal offense in the US, although not necessarily convicted. Deny it all you want, but you can blow that denial out of your arse. The question is that which appears in the poll: Do you believe that the federal and/or state governments of the US should make a law with the same purpose as that I have quoted above from the BC Human Rights Code? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyF0cker Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 If you need security clearance for having access customer, government, or other sensitive data of course you'll have a background check. Just like if you're a teacher or run a day care, your record should probably be checked to see if you're a convicted child molester. Common sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWarning Posted January 6, 2019 Report Share Posted January 6, 2019 Roughly 10% of US adults have a felony, Paddy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownsfan Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Business owners should be allowed to not hire criminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
housepicks Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Surprising stance by paddy with him being a felon and all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyF0cker Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 There are very few occupations where a criminal record wouldn't be relevant to employment in some way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Paddy Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Roughly 10% of US adults have a felony, Paddy. Same here. But, up here, 60% of adult males admit to having committed a criminal offense. Not to the police, but to researchers. Or journalists. So if Monkey is right in what he says about relevance, it would mean you have a built in government created 10% unemployment rate. Before you even get to the other unemployed. I know there are very few jobs where a criminal record would be relevant in BC. The news the other day reported the RCMP were having severe problems with recruiting and were considering various methods to increase job applications. One of the ideas was to permit people with prior criminal backgrounds to apply. If you give people lie detector tests for entry to the Mounties, and 60% of your pool actually has committed one or more offenses, and you ask "Have you ever committed an offense for which you escaped detection by authorities?", then you've got reduced recruitment possibilities. If you get a guy convicted 8 years ago for a bar fight, and he has no convictions since, and he has completed law school, can he be admitted to the bar down there? Not a problem up here. Five years is enough. We have a convicted murderer practicing law in BC. The law society test is not a criminal record, but the immediate question of whether the person seeking admittance is of good character, or not. A criminal record is not the test of that, but only a part of addressing the good character criteria. It is a policy with a racist effect. Not saying that is its purpose, but it can be used for that purpose, and it clearly has the effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyF0cker Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 The problem is that you don't know any of that until you perform a background check. Whether it's someone handling cash, responsible for the safety of children, privy to sensitive data, etc. you won't know what they've done or how it may relate to the occupation until you've checked their background and criminal history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brownsfan Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 If you get a guy convicted 8 years ago for a bar fight, and he has no convictions since, and he has completed law school, can he be admitted to the bar down there? Not a problem up here. Five years is enough. We have a convicted murderer practicing law in BC. The law society test is not a criminal record, but the immediate question of whether the person seeking admittance is of good character, or not. A criminal record is not the test of that, but only a part of addressing the good character criteria. It is a policy with a racist effect. Not saying that is its purpose, but it can be used for that purpose, and it clearly has the effect. Not black and white here. You appear before a character and fitness board that weighs the totality of your "crimes" against any mitigating factors since the crime occurred (time since offense being a big one). A bar fight 8 years ago and you'd probably be OK.....a murder at any point, probably not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Paddy Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 The problem is that you don't know any of that until you perform a background check. Whether it's someone handling cash, responsible for the safety of children, privy to sensitive data, etc. you won't know what they've done or how it may relate to the occupation until you've checked their background and criminal history.Here, you have to know your company is one of those employers for which a criminal record check is appropriate. It may be common sense, as in those things you list, or it may be that a court has already ruled for, or against, a similar company when an applicant was denied by reason of criminal record. The only government mandated check is in the vulnerable sector, where the person will work with people who could be victimized as a result of some vulnerability, age, infirmity, etc. n some places here, in Canada generally, you can only ask for a record check on the applicant who is otherwise unsuccessful. Otherwise, a whole pile of people who gained nothing have lost their privacy to some HR twat who can now blackmail them in other aspects of their lives. Canada is a place that places high value on rehabilitation for both moral and economic reasons. There are many benefits to society when a person is rehablitated, working and paying taxes, than when such a person can't be employed because of his or her record, and has no option but to live a life of crime, or stiffing on gambling forums. Almost every liberal democratic society prefers rehabilitation. Including America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
housepicks Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 That may work for Canada but we have a lot of good for nothing shitheads over here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
housepicks Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 If this system prevents Bateman from getting a job than it’s doing what it’s supposed to be doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Isn't it terrible when your life choices ruin your chances of gainful employment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWarning Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Paddy - thee are some businesses in Michigan who actually get a tax break to hire felons, rehab them and give them a 2nd chance. Now obviously it depends on the job, but I know some who employ felons. Many felons also work in the trades as companies need all the able-bodies they can get for construction, roofing, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWarning Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Isn't it terrible when your life choices ruin your chances of gainful employment? Yeah, most people eliminate themselves these days. The worker with a clean record has his choice of jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BranchDavidian Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Here, you have to know your company is one of those employers for which a criminal record check is appropriate. It may be common sense, as in those things you list, or it may be that a court has already ruled for, or against, a similar company when an applicant was denied by reason of criminal record. The only government mandated check is in the vulnerable sector, where the person will work with people who could be victimized as a result of some vulnerability, age, infirmity, etc. n some places here, in Canada generally, you can only ask for a record check on the applicant who is otherwise unsuccessful. Otherwise, a whole pile of people who gained nothing have lost their privacy to some HR twat who can now blackmail them in other aspects of their lives. Canada is a place that places high value on rehabilitation for both moral and economic reasons. There are many benefits to society when a person is rehablitated, working and paying taxes, than when such a person can't be employed because of his or her record, and has no option but to live a life of crime, or stiffing on gambling forums. Almost every liberal democratic society prefers rehabilitation. Including America. If an applicant is unsuccessful before a record check, why allow or bother with a record check? This is just another chance for that HR twat to get blackmail material and a waste of time and resources for everyone involved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Paddy Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 If an applicant is unsuccessful before a record check, why allow or bother with a record check? This is just another chance for that HR twat to get blackmail material and a waste of time and resources for everyone involved!Sorry, BD, that was a typo. Should have read "...on the applicant who is otherwise successful". The reasoning behind that is that it is first established who is best qualified for the position. If after that, the person is not hired because of the criminal record check, it is established that even though this person was the best qualified, he or she was ultimately discriminated against on the basis of a criminal record. That clarifies the situation if it goes to court or a human rights tribunal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Paddy Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 Paddy - thee are some businesses in Michigan who actually get a tax break to hire felons, rehab them and give them a 2nd chance. Now obviously it depends on the job, but I know some who employ felons. Many felons also work in the trades as companies need all the able-bodies they can get for construction, roofing, etc.That is the way it should be. Well done, Michigan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeman Posted January 7, 2019 Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 What did you do paddy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Paddy Posted January 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2019 What did you do paddy? Pay attention. Where have you been for the last 12 years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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