BAUS Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 Mathy, my guess is that the reason books don't do it is because of a lower theoretical hold at the same break. -110/-110 hold is 4.5455%-130/+110 hold is 3.9761% Their hold on a push is zero and they still have to pay overhead like CS reps, lines managers, etc. I think this is the point Marty is making here. BAUS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pocketrockets Posted August 21, 2016 Report Share Posted August 21, 2016 Also, Pinny constantly has different lines than the US based books... so while Pinny has -6 -130 on the bears, a line maker will probably adjust that -130 as half a point and play with that number and the vig... pinny uses 8 cents lines... so a -6 -130/-132 is easily a -6.5 -115 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bfo Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Basically impossible for Vegas book to even out their action due to parlay/parlay card exposure. You may be booking a late night game that looks pretty 2 sided, then when you punch in a theoretical final score it shows you losing a substantial amount no matter who wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Marty Posted August 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Monkey, good point. That's why I brought in online books, and while most follow a 10c line or 20c line, they are aware that 20c is not created equally or we'd have +380/-400. I guess they're too lazy to do what Pinnacle does and scale it as they move away from -105/-105. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rito Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Monkey, good point. That's why I brought in online books, and while most follow a 10c line or 20c line, they are aware that 20c is not created equally or we'd have +380/-400. I guess they're too lazy to do what Pinnacle does and scale it as they move away from -105/-105. I can't believe it's been this long, but maybe 12 year ago beantown jim deposited at pinny for -105, saw a -140/+127 or something and went apeshit saying they lied about -105/-105 when really they just have a consistent hold across they lineset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Marty Posted August 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Bookmakers trying to even out their action are pussies or extremely small time. I am talking serious books here, not HRWager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Marty Posted August 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I can't believe it's been this long, but maybe 12 year ago beantown jim deposited at pinny for -105, saw a -140/+127 or something and went apeshit saying they lied about -105/-105 when really they just have a consistent hold across they lineset. Classic... bet he wanted NoName +1195/ Federer -1205, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pocketrockets Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I can't believe it's been this long, but maybe 12 year ago beantown jim deposited at pinny for -105, saw a -140/+127 or something and went apeshit saying they lied about -105/-105 when really they just have a consistent hold across they lineset. LOL. So he expected -200/+195 lines, cute Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Marty Posted August 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Imagine you go to all the trouble to go to Costa Rica to set up a book, it's all legal, you have squares like Hangover and Harvard betting into your lines... you have a license to print fucking money, and every single one except CRIS is limiting and booting players left and right because they can't tolerate anyone getting a little hot. Even Brock has been on some unreal runs. Are you seriously going to ban Brock, George, when he wins 5k off you? Jesus christ... CR books have a license to print money and too scared to actually do it. The knuckleheads behind the counter are some of the biggest nitwits on the planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rito Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Not necessarily, big difference if you are playing with a local or a post up shop. Most shops won't move the line themselves (except for the big 3, pinny, bm and 5d)... when its a post up shop most small-medium sized shops will follow the main books and look for an average... if the action is too one sided then you play with the juice not much with the numbers. Lets say pinny has colts -6 -115. 5d has colts -6.5 dog 25, bm has colts -6.5 dog 20.. a good average would be -6.5 flat and just watch the action as it comes... then move the juice 5 cents for every few thousand dollars to try and balance the action a bit, or simply get the players to pay the price (usually the public fave loses, so it is a winning strategy regardless of isolated results). The juice spiking becomes more agressive if you are dealing with a prop or a rare sport match being hammered due to the lack of solid statistical data. This is for post up medium small shops... but having moved lines at 5D I can tell you Tony is more jumpy about juicing... for example on live betting/props, he likes a 5/10 cent bump after 2-3k entered one side and none on the other... the props depend much more on which players bet 'em, he has a lot of steamers that play props but are limited to $20-50 max a bet so they pretty much dictate on what side the bump is coming in. If you are a player that plays with a local who pays for a perhead, PPH shops will move on market ALWAYS unless the action is 75% heavier on one side they MIGHT bump it a bit but as a general rule they don't do it cause some agents will get raped by bumping a number. And thats something the agents can do themselves for their own package anyways, so if an agent cares much about balance in the action make no mistake, he will be monitoring the heavy action games and adjusting accordingly. Interesting. Sometimes I really wonder wtf is going on over there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rito Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Imagine you go to all the trouble to go to Costa Rica to set up a book, it's all legal, you have squares like Hangover and Harvard betting into your lines... you have a license to print fucking money, and every single one except CRIS is limiting and booting players left and right because they can't tolerate anyone getting a little hot. Even Brock has been on some unreal runs. Are you seriously going to ban Brock, George, when he wins 5k off you? Jesus christ... CR books have a license to print money and too scared to actually do it. The knuckleheads behind the counter are some of the biggest nitwits on the planet. I don't think most places are banning anyone except steam chasers and real winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeyF0cker Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Their hold on a push is zero and they still have to pay overhead like CS reps, lines managers, etc. I think this is the point Marty is making here. BAUS Well, if we take Mathy's push percentage of 12% as an example, the -110/-110 hold (4.5454%) reduced by 12% (4.0000%) will still be marginally higher than the hold at -130/+110 (3.9761%). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHHEAD Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Imagine you go to all the trouble to go to Costa Rica to set up a book, it's all legal, you have squares like Hangover and Harvard betting into your lines... you have a license to print fucking money, and every single one except CRIS is limiting and booting players left and right because they can't tolerate anyone getting a little hot. Even Brock has been on some unreal runs. Are you seriously going to ban Brock, George, when he wins 5k off you? Jesus christ... CR books have a license to print money and too scared to actually do it. The knuckleheads behind the counter are some of the biggest nitwits on the planet.Geroge did not move to CR, he's a native. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pocketrockets Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Imagine you go to all the trouble to go to Costa Rica to set up a book, it's all legal, you have squares like Hangover and Harvard betting into your lines... you have a license to print fucking money, and every single one except CRIS is limiting and booting players left and right because they can't tolerate anyone getting a little hot. Even Brock has been on some unreal runs. Are you seriously going to ban Brock, George, when he wins 5k off you? Jesus christ... CR books have a license to print money and too scared to actually do it. The knuckleheads behind the counter are some of the biggest nitwits on the planet. Well thats your point of view and a valid one at that BUT... things are not black n white in the biz, not anymore. 15 years ago during the "offshore" golden age there were around 200-300 sportbooks down here in CR. I shit you not, Even the medium sized books could "gamble" and "not balance" cause their volume was so huge it didnt matter if they had 4 bad months out of 12... the profit of those 12 months would be hummungus. Its all about volume and business equilibrium. For a medium-small sized book is the constant cash flow that keeps it alive, unnecessary risks lead to medium/small shops being closed and players stiffed... I know we have several examples of that happening even 10 years ago when you could still move $ fairly easily (pre-UIGEA). So now, you are better off with a book that takes measures in order to protect their longevity by limiting/booting out winners... if you are a constant winner over the years, you have no business playing at small/medium sized books. Get a proxy, bet at Vegas, have some 3-4 offshore big outs (5d-bm-heritage) and a canadian/european proxy for pinny-bet365-williamhill, problem solved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Marty Posted August 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 George is probably running his entire operation on an iPad sitting in the corner of a KFC with free wifi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Marty Posted August 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Geroge did not move to CR, he's a native. Correction then.. not KFC, Pollo Campero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pocketrockets Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Interesting. Sometimes I really wonder wtf is going on over there. Haha, well Rito, not all line movers are "handicappers" and not all "handicappers" are line movers. More often than not you'll see good lines, but sometimes you can exploit weak line movers because they will "shade" on numbers that don't make sense based out of fear. Hell, we are all humans, and mind you, a line mover usually has to take care of 100's of numbers by himself during saturday/sunday crunchtime. Especially medium/small sized books where they usually have 2-3 movers at the most per shift... 5dimes usually has 5 linemovers for major sports only and Tony supervising... they have separate line movers for live betting/props/misc sports... and well BM is a whole different beast, never moved lines there, but I know a whole floor is for the lines department... so Im thinking 15-20 people on there on average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHHEAD Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 They have rooms/floor just for in-game soccer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rito Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 pinny-bet365-williamhill, problem solved. 2 of the above do not fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always Call Heads Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 George claims to have a profile on every bettor he has through other books and has a good idea of whether or not they are going to win. But he even kicks out Cop. That is a little strange. It seems the bonus books just take no chances on getting a big hitter in house and his winding up owning the whole book. So they will kick out even the guys that are lucky because they have no idea of who might take them for a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHHEAD Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Some people are very content with operating a local hardware shop, with no aspirations franchising out......nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rito Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Haha, well Rito, not all line movers are "handicappers" and not all "handicappers" are line movers. More often than not you'll see good lines, but sometimes you can exploit weak line movers because they will "shade" on numbers that don't make sense based out of fear. Hell, we are all humans, and mind you, a line mover usually has to take care of 100's of numbers by himself during saturday/sunday crunchtime. Especially medium/small sized books where they usually have 2-3 movers at the most per shift... 5dimes usually has 5 linemovers for major sports only and Tony supervising... they have separate line movers for live betting/props/misc sports... and well BM is a whole different beast, never moved lines there, but I know a whole floor is for the lines department... so Im thinking 15-20 people on there on average. I mean sometimes I'll bet some prop I have $25 limit and and it moves 30c. Or sometimes it just goes to eval for 3 minutes and then never moves and I bet it again and again and again and again and again. I know it's different for stuff only they have versus stuff on the screen. There was a golf matchup where one player announced he was hurt but he needed the start to qualify for something so he basically said he was gonna tee of and then wd (which is a win for the other guy). It came down right away at pinny, but it still showed on the screen. I know someone with $100 limits that bet it over 100 times before they took it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FISHHEAD Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 100x , wow. Have racked up 15-20 times there on their delay, but 100x, wow!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hangover Posted August 22, 2016 Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 I mean sometimes I'll bet some prop I have $25 limit and and it moves 30c. Or sometimes it just goes to eval for 3 minutes and then never moves and I bet it again and again and again and again and again. I know it's different for stuff only they have versus stuff on the screen. There was a golf matchup where one player announced he was hurt but he needed the start to qualify for something so he basically said he was gonna tee of and then wd (which is a win for the other guy). It came down right away at pinny, but it still showed on the screen. I know someone with $100 limits that bet it over 100 times before they took it down. lol did they get booted and or paid? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno Marty Posted August 22, 2016 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2016 Can we get some photos of CR books' floors? Latinas on the phones, some greasy American ex-pats running the show with rib sauce on their shirt, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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